Other Counties

Midlander · Subject: Re: Other Counties Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:27 pm

This is a very apocalyptic thread – perhaps the dark miserable days of February bring on such thoughts. Nonetheless there do seem to be some things to worry about. So how can we ensure survival of WCCC? This causes me to ask what I value about the club – and the answer comes back to me quite clearly as the New Rd experience. Even through the grim cricket of last summer, the place drew me back again and again (or perhaps it was the fact I had paid my membership fee!). So I would suggest on the one hand that experience needs to be sold – and not just in the locality. Could New Rd be put on the tourist trail for the coaches of overseas visitors that flood through Stratford and the Cotswolds (an afternoon’s play and tea in the pavilion)? Could the club work with the tourist board to promote a session at New Rd as part of a package deal taking in other local delights? Perhaps there could (ECB allowing) be a later start to play and an extended evening session that could be sold as a time to relax after work – or where to entertain clients. Key to such developments would in my view be the continued redevelopment of the ground – hotel and all (I know that that will make me unpopular!) – as, if we are honest, the current facilities aren’t very attractive in places. If the hotel were built, then package deals for several days play could be put together. On a different tack, the web cam has proved very successful – what about a couple of fast stationary web cams that could capture the play in the Championship, and that could be sold to those willing to pay for the privilege? And to raise finance, why not do something very radical – like playing some 20-20 matches at The Hawthornes, where one might attract crowds of 10,000+. This would be an abomination I know (but perhaps not much more so than 20-20 itself), but could tap into the huge Black Country audience, that I have gone on about in the past. The Hawthornes (Wikepidea tells me) has a playing surface of 74m x 115m, and cricket has been played on smaller pitches. Indeed the same source says that India played Pakistan there in 1974 – does anyone have any recollection of that?

All of the above increase income. Costs could be reduced by (say) having a much smaller squad and sharing a second team and academy facilities with like minded counties in the locality – perhaps with joint registration of players (Moseley RUFC do this with Gloucester)

Sorry for the stream of consciousness – but it does seem to me that there could be ways of making the financial situation somewhat rosier. And if the predictions of the doom-mongers are true, this could be very necessary.

Hotels before players · Subject: Re: Other Counties Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:53 pm

What a gloomy old thread - even for me !

Franchise cricket and brand cricket ?

People support their Counties. If Worcs were amalgamated into some regional branded team, I wouldn't pay a penny to watch it. Rivalry and tradition replaced by razzamattaz and cheerleaders ! Mickey Mouse games being played by Mickey Mouse teams - not for me.

Serchers · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:00 am

Malvern Mike wrote:

Many counties are deciding which way to jump based on various issues

a) Franchise situation
b) Sky funding
c) Player squads & wages
d) Basic survival

The real issue for many of the smaller clubs is (d) but not just based on making the books balance. The over-riding concern could be that some counties will disappear altogether from the professional arena.

In my humble opinion, WCCC's key issue is how to put itself in a position not to be in the most likely 3-4 counties to suffer a terminal fate.

So, who would forum members believe would face the axe before WCCC, particularly as there only 9 first class counties who now cannot stage a Test Match?

I'm sure that I must be viewed as a traditionalist, and grumbler but I'm really not. I'm all for new ideas and have always been an advocate of T20 since it first started. Even this franchise business does have it's merits and of course I would support anything that made the game financially viable - although I would prefer to keep some traditions, of course.

What's annoying the hell out of me is that the problem and solution is obvious. it's just that no-one has the bloody guts to do anything about it. Cricket has more participants, more support and far more money pouring into it that ever before. But it's not ring-fenced, it's blown away on inflationary wages. How the heck can a club like Worcs get £1.8m last year and still make a loss, still lose key players because of wages, and still have a pretty average squad ?

Hampshire might well earn quite a few more big bucks, but they'll spend it on big players by paying stupid money for them. It's Premiership madness all over again. T20 was the big financial saviour five years ago but since then the gate tickets have doubled in price and most clubs are still running at a loss. MADNESS.

What's actually happening is the marketing men are being put under increasing pressure to come up with new schemes and scams just to keep clubs standing still. It can't carry on like this, and if we can't be financially viable offering Tests, County Championships, 40 over and T20 then we might as well shut up shop now.

WBB · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:48 am

A great many points to look at here..I'll keep it brief and apologies if I have missed anything out.

Firstly, we have played cricket at the Hawthorns! It was c. 1980 and the Lambert and Butler Challenge Cup, a one-off gimmick to promote the then new cigarette brand. Each County nominated a football ground and games were played under floodlights from 7ish to 11ish at night. The Bears used Villa Park, btw.

But we have not- a repeated call of mine- used the huge Black Country audience that Midlander rightly mentions. We have not used anywhere north of Kiddy for even Seconds play for 3 or 4 years. 250,000 people in Dudley and Sandwell Boroughs- all for us to take!

Hotels is right in that I wouldn't follow a merger with the Bears. Where the hell would the bragging rights be there? But I can see some regionalisation of 20/20 soon- I spoke last year about a Three Counties Bulls with Gloucs. Maybe that will come sooner or later, by choice or alliance or need- who knows.

Serchers hits nails on heads. The money is going to players who seem to think that they are Wayne Rooney. Never forget that agents of the football mindset rather than the Reg Hayter press agency mindset are under 10 years old in cricket: and that they came to Worcs. via Gareth Batty, who had one at Surrey who was Salisbury and Saqlain's- and who had been a business partner of Saqlain, by legend. The sports management agencies only came in at that stage. More salaries for players- more 20% for them. Wayne Rooney had to admit in court today that he made £12m a year- don't forget that his agent is on £2m of that in commission. I think the Surrey bowling attack of 8-9 years ago opened a real Pandora's box..Serchers is right in that the golden eggs may stop within just another 4-5 years time.

Serchers · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:08 pm

A quick look at the accounts give some good figures, which I've rounded up. The 2007 disaster, followed by the big insurance payout and donations in 2008 distorts the figures a little.

Interestingly, the income has not increased as I thought it had. With the ECB £'s accounting for over half the income, the reduction of £300k this year is a massive blow, hence the cut-backs. We also have a history of spending more on cricket than the ECB hand-out. Expenditure is fairly static at an average of £2.8m/year (allowing for the '07 & '08 variance) but most revealing of all is the increase in cricket costs and it's percentage of income.

The difficulty is in matching cricket costs which are rising to flat income streams. I suppose the choice is to accept (give up ?) that increasing revenue from our 'normal' cricket won't happen, and look for Indian deals to subsidise us. Then there is the question about cricket costs - capping is easy to say but certain clubs get around this anyway. And in truth, it goes against my capitalist outlook !

Year	Income	ECB £'s	Expenditure	Cricket £'s	Cricket £ / % Income
2005	£2.6m	£1.4m	£2.5m	£1.5m	58%
2006	£2.6m	£1.5m	£2.5m	£1.6m	61%
2007	£2.1m	£1.6m	£3.2m	£1.8m	86%
2008	£3.1m	£1.6m	£2.7m	£1.7m	55%
2009	£3.0m	£1.9m	£3.1m	£2.1m	70%

Kim · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:20 pm

You can see why a big reduction in ECB income if the Ashes go from Sky is terrifying.

Why the big jump in crocket costs in 2009?

WBB · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:41 pm

You capitalist swine, Serchers! Wink

Michael · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:29 pm

I see that Northampton have lost van de Wath and Wessells because of the 'new' restrictions. I am no lawyer, and I would love to know how some counties / players seem to dance round the restrictions and others don't. Can someone explain in understandable lingo?

Brian P · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:52 pm

I guess the 2009 rise is mainly due to 12 month contracts becoming prevalent - only Kabby was left on the old style 7 to 9 month deal.

asia exile · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:16 am

The Sussex forum are worried that they have the weakest seam bowling attack bar us in both divisions

Colleymore was excellent while Arafat, Kirtley and RMJ were below par last year by their standards - however the four of them have 1955 FC wickets at 27.2 between them - also with Wright, Anyon, Keegan and Yardy plus Dwayne Smith returning for the T20 the cupboard is hardly bare Martlets

As for us having the poorest seam bowling attack I would suggest that based on ins and outs and last years form Kent, Yorks, Leics, Glamorgan and Surrey are far more reliant on one or two players to perform and have weaker CC pace attacks.

martyn · Subject: Re: Other Counties Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:42 pm

Keegan is no longer with us. Smith is only with us for Twenty20 and Yardy is a spinner.

Kirtley hasn't really performed in county championship cricket for several seasons now. Martin-Jenkins and Collymore are also getting on a bit too. Arafat was a massive disappointment last season.

Tim Hall · Subject: Re: Other Counties Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:21 pm

Yardy is a spinner?

Turns it less than Batty.......

_________________
My first match: Headley, Turner, Stimpson, B d'Oliveira, Hemsley, Yardley, Ormrod, Wilcock, Gifford, Holder, Carter

(JPL v Essex, 18/7/71, WCCC won by 8 wkts)

asia exile · Subject: Re: Other Counties Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:41 pm

Yardys cricinfo bio suggests he is left arm medium or left arm slow

In one day games he has 87 wickets at 37.4 (SR 45.5) with 2 x 4 and 1 x 6 wicket haul and in T20 32 wickets at 27.1 (SR 25.1), so it must be deceptively devilish stuff

If only my slow right arm filth was half as effective at bamboozling tail enders

pale

asia exile · Subject: Re: Other Counties Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:05 pm

Re. Lancs batting frailties discussed elsewhere. The Lancs appeal against Faf du Plessis work visa ruling by the Home Office has been rejected.

Although he made 9 fifties the Lancs board were quick to point out that he failed to score a FC ton in his two years and 39 innings - 984 runs @ 28.11 and 12 wickets @ 46.16. His one day performances will be more difficult to replace – 23 innings 804 runs @ 47.29 with 6 x 50’s & 2 x 100’s and in T20 – 17 innings 355 runs @ 25.35 with 2 x 50’s and 14 wickets @ 17.85 with his leg breaks.

With the Sangakarra move on hold, will one of the legion of promising under 25’s i.e. Steven Croft, Adrian Shankar, Gareth Cross (as a specialist bat) or AN Other now finally be given a first team chance by Moores? With this on the cards, and the departure of Loye it makes the signing of Kolpak Darren Powell seem even more curious.

Kim · Subject: Re: Other Counties Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:01 pm

asia exile wrote:

Yardys cricinfo bio suggests he is left arm medium or left arm slow

In one day games he has 87 wickets at 37.4 (SR 45.5) with 2 x 4 and 1 x 6 wicket haul and in T20 32 wickets at 27.1 (SR 25.1), so it must be deceptively devilish stuff

If only my slow right arm filth was half as effective at bamboozling tail enders

pale

He bowls left arm darts that are particularly difficult to get away. He's only played 6 ODIs but his economy rate is just over 3 which is very good. Wouldnt think hed cause much trouble in FC cricket though.

He - and Blackwell - should be much nearer the England one day side than they seem to be IMO.